My views on the LDS (Mormon) Faith...

Ok, this is a conversation I had with one of my friends from work on Instant Messenger. This was probably in October 2008 (FYI the grammar in this blog is not spot on, it was on IM so bare with me).



Jason: How is your morning

Michelle Nickell: It's going really well actually

Jason: How so?

Michelle Nickell: Well, Kory and I went and got coffee at 7-11 Oh thank Heaven and I did my makeup at work, and it hasn't been really busy or too slow.

Michelle Nickell: How about you?

Jason: Just chugging along with the same old stuff. Almost done with a big stack of papers.

Jason: yeah!!

Michelle Nickell: Awesome!

Jason: Then I just get to start on a stack of papers that I really dislike doing.

Michelle Nickell: I am sorry, I hate it when there's things that I need to get done and I don't wanna do it

Jason: well it is only because then I have to deal with winny people for a whole month.

Michelle Nickell: Yeah, that'll never change unfortunately

Jason: I have not done it for 5 months and it has been great.

Michelle Nickell: Ugh, I hate that, I'm sorry

Jason: No worries it will go fast once I get started then once it is mailed then I will just have a bunch of winers at one time then none for a while again.

Michelle Nickell: there ya go.

Jason: Its all about looking for the positives.

Michelle Nickell: True dat!

Jason: So what do you think of my friend kory is he a keeper? He going to make it the distance?

Michelle Nickell: To be honest, I think things are going really well, I think he's definately a keeper for sure!

Jason: glad to hear.

Michelle Nickell: It's still kinda funny that we're dating knowing that back in the day when we played hacky sack, and we NEVER thought this would happen.

Jason: True that.

Michelle Nickell: Haha, but things have been really good, we've been dating for almost 4 months now

Jason: Wow mormon standard says another two months and you will be engaged.

Michelle Nickell: Well, good thing I’m not really mormon lol

Jason: What ever.

Michelle Nickell: I’m not

Jason: What are you all then?

Michelle Nickell: I’m a Christian

Michelle Nickell: I’m more spiritual than religious

Jason: well that is good a believer in christ is always a step in the right way.

Michelle Nickell: Absolutely

Jason: Well I am proud to say I am lds that makes mistakes.

Michelle Nickell: Good for you!

Jason: Think you would ever go back to mormonism?

Michelle Nickell: Not likely.

Jason: why not?

Michelle Nickell: I don’t believe certain things we're taught in the church. I have a lot of respect for the LDS faith, I just personally don't believe a lot of their teachings. And I'll be honest, I am not a girl who lives by the rules of mormonism, it's just not me.

Jason: What beliefs dont you agree with?

Michelle Nickell: Well here's the thing about mormonism that I don't like: A lot of their teachings are meant to be metaphorical, but people take them literally. For example, Adam and Eve...I don't think God took a rib out of Adam and created Eve. In my belief, there is without a doubt in my mind that there is a God, and he uses nature and science to create things. How are we to know that the world was created in 7 days? No one was around then to have record! Why are there secret handshakes when you go to the temple, and why do you have to act out scenes etc. When little kids go up and bare their testimony and they are like 5, they are TOLD to do it, sure it’s cute, but they don't have a testimony at the age of 5, they haven't prayed and studied the scriptures, it's like their parents brain-wash them in a way. We're always taught that we have this free agency in the church, but then we can't really practice it because if our free agency tells us that drinking isn't bad and neither is sex before marriage, we're wrong

Michelle Nickell: We're told not to do those things, therefore are WRONG if we use our free agency.

Michelle Nickell: So, I have nothing against the church...I feel that it really does bless people's lives, but I'm just not one of them.

Jason: So your big issues about the church are drinking and premarital sex?

Michelle Nickell: No, I just don't believe a lot of their teachings

Jason: So you think it is wrong to teach your children to do things safe. Like dont touch the stove it will be hot. Just let them burn themselves and hope they learn there lesson?

Michelle Nickell: Not in that direct content, but in my experience, they just teach you what's in the scriptures, which is awesome, but they don't tell you to do your own research. It's not just drinking and premarital sex, those things are miniscule, but I have read the scriptures, gone to church with an open mind and heart and have never felt anything. So I just personally don't believe it's true

Michelle Nickell: And there are people in EVERY religion that say that they KNOW for a FACT that their church is true, if that's so, and they all have different beliefs, then how can that POSSIBLY be true? All I know is I'm a good person, I'm kind, I'm very happy, I'm a good daughter, sister, aunt, cousin, etc. and I believe in God, and that's good enough for me

Jason: They told me all the time to do my own research in the scriptures. They even gave me helpful guides to read to better understand.

Michelle Nickell: I know, they tell you to read the scriptures, what about scientifical facts?

Michelle Nickell: outside of the scriptures

Michelle Nickell: how we evolved

Michelle Nickell: etc.

Jason: FARMS is outside the church and have done wonderful discoveries about the mormon faith.

Jason: Do you think we did evolve or were we created?

Michelle Nickell: I think god used elements in nature to create beings which over time have evolved.

Jason: Evolved in mental capability or physically?

Jason: Like the physical apperance?

Jason: I do believe man can adapt to a specific climate but I dont believe in changing from one speicy(?) to another.

Michelle Nickell: a bit of both...think about it...how else would we have so many different types of animals? Because over time, something happened, whether it was a climate change, a mating with a different animal, whatever it was, that created the beginning of a new species. And another thing I don't like about the church, is how you HAVE to get married and sealed in the Temple in order to see your loved ones again in the next life...ummm, really? So if you're not married in a specific MAN MADE BUILDING, based upon rules that certain people made up, I won't see my family in the next life??? God knows that not everyone is LDS and knows that there are some damn good people out there that are not LDS, so he's going to punish them for not believing a certain way, for not joining a club and obeying the rules? Sorry, I don't think so, and if God does punish people like that, then he's just a big jerk. But God loves everyone, no matter what!

Michelle Nickell: That's what religions are, they are clubs, where someone makes up rules and regulations to obey, and think that's what God wants. Just things that they want and expect you to do in the LDS religion is not for me...I see nothing wrong with drinking tea, coffee, beer, wine, in fact...all of those drinks, in moderation, are very good for your body, sure if you over indulge in them it

Michelle Nickell: it's bad, but in moderation, is good.

Michelle Nickell: And I see nothing wrong with sex before marriage...I DO, however, see something wrong with sex before love and compassion.

Michelle Nickell: Not having sex before marriage is like buying a car without test driving it first, how do you know if things are gonna be ok in that area, I know several people who that didn't work out so well for, and they are miserable...which is really sad because they are good people.

Michelle Nickell: Having said that, I think it's very wrong to have sex with just anyone. That is something that is special and should ONLY be shared if you feel complete love and compassion for whoever you're with. Because then it actually means something.

Michelle Nickell: Even with Prophets of our church, why are they the ONLY one's that have direct contact with God? And why would God say to a prophet "tell your people that women should only have one earring in each ear, and no man should have any piercing, or tattoo."

Michelle Nickell: I think God understands that some people don't get tattoos because it's rebellious, they get them because it means something important to them and they want to show that by having a work of art on their body. I know your body is supposed to be your temple...key word...YOUR temple, meaning you do with it as you please, regardless of what others think or say.

Michelle Nickell: That is why God gave us our "Free Agency"

Michelle Nickell: SO much of the LDS faith relies on this blind faith...and I prefer to have a bit more proof than just a spiritual testimony.

Jason: Ok you just made two huge right turns in that conversation. I think that some types of animals might have mated and created a new off shute but I do not believe that man has ever done so.
Now about getting married in the temple, that is just a location of spiritual strength. It is not the building the matters it is the manner in which it is done. The priesthood of god. Or also known as authority given from god to man to act in his name. Oh and god does know there are great people who will not have been given the opportunity in this life and will have that oportunity in the millenial reign to be able to be married with that authority from god aka priesthood.

Jason: So religions are just clubs huh? So why did christ create a club when he was on earth?

Michelle Nickell: Christ did not create the church. Jesus was a Jew

Jason: Christ did set up a church when he was here on earth.

Michelle Nickell: Ok, and Jesus drank wine, so why do we have a rule not to drink wine?

Jason: The wine from back then was grape juice.

Michelle Nickell: Yes, fermented grape juice

Michelle Nickell: it says in the bible that it's wine.

Michelle Nickell: but that's a minor detail.

Michelle Nickell: Here's the thing, I respect the LDS faith, as I said before. I just wish
that they would respect my beliefs in return.

Michelle Nickell: But they don't, they just tell me I'm wrong.

Michelle Nickell: I don't tell them they are wrong.

Michelle Nickell: I just tell them I don't believe it...and good for them if they do.

Jason: You know if someone were to come up to you and say doing drugs is good for you would you go out and try it just to prove to them that they were wrong?

Michelle Nickell: No, because drugs are bad for you

Jason: How do you know?

Jason: Have you ever done them/

Michelle Nickell: Because it's a proven study

Jason: When did that come about?

Michelle Nickell: No I have never touched a drug in my life

Jason: I have done drugs. I take over the counter drugs all the time.

Michelle Nickell: I wasn't talking about those drugs

Jason: The other kind of drugs are just stimulants.

Jason: Just as tabacco, some teas, coffee, and such.

Michelle Nickell: and bad for brain cells.

Michelle Nickell: and lungs

Michelle Nickell: coffee, tea, and wine are GOOD for your heart, in moderation of course

Jason: They just barely came out with tabacco is bad for you, and there are studies about drinking some types of tea and coffee make your stomach hard like leather or ulcers because of the caffiene and other chemicals.

Jason: Some teas are good for you yes.

Jason: I have heard a study about a cup of wine a day is good for your heart also but so is a
glass of grape juice.

Jason: People did not know the harmful effects of tobacco till 50 years ago. What says that god is not letting us know ahead of the curve like with tobacco?

Jason: You know one thing I do agree with you is that you really do need to study things and do research and find both sides of a discussion.

Jason: Then with a logical look at things make a decision.

Jason: The big thing that I have a hard time with is you have to some times put your faith in things that are not seen or known and believe that god will not lead you astray and then ask him for confirmation.

Jason: That I think is the hardest because we dont always have information to study about and such for the proof. Some things god will just let you know is right.

Jason: I choose to not live the life of doubting thomas.

Jason: I choose to live the life of paul. Someone that made mistakes had knowledge and made a right decision and god let him know.

Michelle Nickell: Exactly, and I tried for about a year give or take to really try and open my mind and heart to mormonism, I read my scriptures occasionally, went to church, listened to the lessons, went to activities, and was never ONCE spiritually fed. I'm more spiritually fed now than I've ever been and happier than I've ever been. I say my prayers, and God knows what kind of person I am...and he's not going to punish me for not being LDS, even though I was raised to be LDS. And you know what, I know that God will not lead me astray, he has helped me out in my life multiple times, which I'm very greatful for. And I do have faith in the unseen, which is precisely the reason I believe the way I do, and I am happier in my life than I have EVER been...So no matter what anyone tells me, I'm going to practice my free agency and live my life the way that makes me feel good. The church fulfills a lot of peoples lives, and is extremely helpful to them, which is wonderful...but I am happy being the person that I am, without being an active member of the church.

Michelle Nickell: Just know, I respect your beliefs, and the church is a great lifestyle for you. But everyone is different. People find happiness many different ways. So with that being said, I think our discussion, as far as religion goes, is done.